tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8935690.post7546709084416912569..comments2023-10-05T02:33:30.934-07:00Comments on ipsa loquitur: stealing, ethics, and deep pocketsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8935690.post-76948115292452602542009-12-27T19:37:34.034-08:002009-12-27T19:37:34.034-08:00Hmmm, I think I would be comfortable saying "...Hmmm, I think I would be comfortable saying "yes" to that.Emilyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01695713342657700875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8935690.post-40185236714263889872009-12-27T16:47:52.355-08:002009-12-27T16:47:52.355-08:00It sounds like your moral objection isn't agai...It sounds like your moral objection isn't against just outright theft, but any use of somebody's property that they aren't okay with. Is that accurate?kenjihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06308313003001917169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8935690.post-16189650885806289442009-12-26T11:50:45.678-08:002009-12-26T11:50:45.678-08:00So in the goat example, would it violate your cons...So in the goat example, would it violate your conscience if the goat owner said "You can copy my goats for $5 a head" and you went and copied them without paying her, but she still had all her original goats unchanged?kenjihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06308313003001917169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8935690.post-810865259541919342009-12-26T11:44:55.571-08:002009-12-26T11:44:55.571-08:00Hmmmm. A couple years ago I did a continuing lega...Hmmmm. A couple years ago I did a continuing legal education seminar in copyright and trademark law, but it didn't get into this kind of question very much, except to reiterate that copyright infringement is, indeed, illegal. IT law seems like an interesting area. <br /><br />I think the problem, conscience-wise, is that you are taking something that has a price on it without paying for it.Emilyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01695713342657700875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8935690.post-30228270609724026822009-12-25T11:55:45.215-08:002009-12-25T11:55:45.215-08:00Yeah, I was gonna say that what you're stealin...Yeah, I was gonna say that what you're stealing is the abstract pattern of information contained in the disc or hard drive, but it's not even that. They still have that after you do it. What you're violating is a right to _exclude_ people from possession of that pattern of information, however encoded. Which is all a copyright is, I guess.<br /><br />I'm trying to imagine an analogue to this right if it pertained to physical objects as well as information. What if you had a herd of goats and people had the power to just walk up and create a duplicate of your goats out of thin air and carry those duplicates off, while leaving your original goats there? Would that be wrong? For it to be a crime, your property rights over those goats would have to be redefined to mean you had a right for other people not to have identical goats, rather than your simply having a right to possess those goats.kenjihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06308313003001917169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8935690.post-22937447932296976052009-12-25T11:41:23.646-08:002009-12-25T11:41:23.646-08:00Yeah, it's an interesting problem. It's al...Yeah, it's an interesting problem. It's almost like there's no "it" to steal, but then there kind of is...Emilyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01695713342657700875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8935690.post-24437914194836123662009-12-25T11:37:49.604-08:002009-12-25T11:37:49.604-08:00One complexity that might make it harder to hold a...One complexity that might make it harder to hold a strong opinion on this is that pirating movies and music isn't really stealing exactly. It's copyright infringement, which differs from outright theft in that it doesn't remove any goods from anybody's possession. This obviously is a crime uncontemplated in the Bible or any document older than the modern idea of copyrights. Maybe early Christians and pre-Christian Jews would have considered copyright infringement to be equivalent to stealing if they had had it explained to them by some time traveler. I don't know how we could go about determining that.kenjihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06308313003001917169noreply@blogger.com